Absolutely
Round them up along with their law braking parents and ship them the hell out of here

Can we back date this for Obama?

I can't believe people are supporting this. Doesn't the constitution mean anything anymore? These kids have as much right to be citizens as anybody else. Give them citizenship.

Yes, if you're born in the United States then you should definitely be allowed to be a citizen of this country. With a parent who was born in a different country, I couldn't imagine someone taking my right away to be a citizen.

Yes. Citizenship to US born kids of illegal immigrants is their ticket to welfare-360 degrees, including education, medical care, retirement, ETC., on Americans and a country that is bankrupt!
June 24th, 2010

p.S. Send these illegal immigrants and their brats home to their country of origin.

The 14th Amendment of the Constitution was intended to apply to the children of LEGAL citizens. The path to citizenship should not be through childbirth of a baby that will be on public support. NO MORE ANCHOR BABIES!

Absolutely...as long as illegals know they can stay here if they have children here they may also stay. We have no room in an already hampered economy for refugees of another country.

The kid might be legal but the parents should not be granted citizenship just by the act of giving birth. That's a heck of an incentive to come here, make a baby and get on the dole.

everyone born in the US has a right to be a citizen. If congress wants to make this a law, then they should backddate this law 200 years and give the country back to the true american indian.

I and my sister have been here for 26 yrs and I was brought here when I was 9 & my sis 8. She has 2 children. One going into high school & a 2 yr old. The father is a citizen and my sister found out after she was pregnant he was married. Should her children be deported. Also there are many evropeans here illegally in NY. Trust me I know many with jobs that pay very well. Should they be deported to? Example if ICE went into Irish pubs or Russian and Polish neighborhoods what do you might find. Raceism is so hidden in the tone in anti immigration protest. When Ellis openned its doors $20 & a clean bill of health was all you needed. Plus the Statue of Liberty faced east to welcome europeans. These are different times but a far cry form what europeans had to go through to be recieved by this nation.

I suppose the 14th Amendment is open for interpretation, otherwise why would the question of citizenship even be asked?

For those who do not understand the harsh tone, I think it stems simply from the fact our laws don't seem to mean anything anymore. So many good citizens believe in the Constitution and if it is clear that anyone born in this country should be a citizen, then so be it.

However, this nagging question remains. Why are WE expected to obey the law and the constitution, while others don't have to? Those that come here illegally are breaking our law but to some, that is okay. The government refuses to enforce the law and to some, that is okay. If we want to declare it is the child's constitutional right to be a citizen then it must be our right to demand the parents follow the laws of our country in the first place and that our government enforce those laws. You can't have it both ways.

Party A can't sue Party B if the contract they have entered into is illegal.

If someone breaks US law and is here illegally, then how can you give their offspring citizenship?

No. The law is the law period. You can not go retro on this matter. That does not mean that parents of children should be allowed to stay based on that singular right of passage alone. It does afford the children dual citizenship and right of immediate full citizenship upon maturity or if the laws pertaining to entry are changed.

GOD BLESS ARIZONA
JAN BREWER FOR PRESIDENT
And the Arizona lawmaker that proposed this law VP

"However, this nagging question remains. Why are WE expected to obey the law and the constitution, while others don't have to?"

I think that when it comes to the idea of kids who were born to illegals being given citizenship, what muddies things is that one can't escape the fact that the kid had no say, no choice. Sent back with his or her guardian? It would make sense, outright denied citizenship? I don;t think it is right, sure make it so the parents can't then become legals automatically, but stil...

If the US had decent border/immigration security, this question wouldnt even be an issue.

"one can't escape the fact that the kid had no say, no choice."

Ben, thought provoking, sound judgment.
Makes me wonder about the interpretation of the whole amendment.

I mean, what if a couple from Europe say, is vacationing in the United States with no plans to live here and the pregnant wife happens to give birth prematurely. Does that mean her child is now a US citizen? Suppose that same couple is on a cruise ship in the middle of the ocean and gives birth, does that child have no citizenship?

There has to be some consideration in regards to the Citizenship of the parents, I suppose.

Mike G: Isn't your argument regarding the cruise ship example, the same thing that right wingers are trying to apply to Obama?
Did Obama's mother at anytime forfeit or deny her citizenship of these United states. The answer is- no.
THERE IS NO DENYING THAT THE CHILD BORN HERE IS A CITIZEN. HOWEVER, THAT PERSON IS NEITHER A TAX PAYING HEAD OF HOUSEHOLD, NOR THE PERSON WHO MUST SHOW PROPER IDENTIFICATION WHICH INCLUDES VALIDATED PROOF OF ENTRY IN ORDER TO WORK HERE LEGALLY.

Citizens should not be forced into entertaining interlopers at the expense of their own childrens well being and security.
On the other hand, If corporations, the Senate, and the filthy rich want to absorb "all" of the costs associated with these law breaking inhabitants having them deducted weekly, quarterly, or annually from their own earnings and assets then, so be it.
LET THEM TAKE THE LEAD IN THIS ARGUMENT BY SETTING THE PRECEDENT WITH THEIR OWN EARNED INCOME.

"Mike G: Isn't your argument regarding the cruise ship example, the same thing that right wingers are trying to apply to Obama? Did Obama's mother at anytime forfeit or deny her citizenship of these United states. The answer is- no."

No John, you are not going to rope me into answering that question and have to face the wrath of Caspian, who already thinks all Tea Party supporters truly believe that Obama was not born here. lol

My only comment is, when running for the highest office in the land, the leader of the free world, the president, a question mark about citizenship, cannot and should not be taken lightly or be subject to interpretation.

No John, you are not going to rope me into answering that question and have to face the wrath of Caspian, who already thinks all Tea Party supporters truly believe that Obama was not born here. lol

==========================

Not all Mike G. BUT many do which discredits the Tea Bag movement.

NOT ONE Republican voted against the Resolution that states Obama was born in Hawaii.

Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh and Fox News are liars and propagandist.


LOL

======================

Congress: Yes, Obama Was Born in Hawaii ( 378 - 0 )
July 28, 2009 / http://tinyurl.com/lhngae
Yesterday, an innocuous-sounding resolution in honor of the 50th anniversary of Hawaiian statehood came up for vote on the House floor.

The resolution from Hawaii Democrat Neil Abercrombie, which Greg Sargent first reported, included this line: "Whereas the 44th President of the United States, Barack Obama, was born in Hawaii…"

Why is that notable? Because it's just the sort of claim that angers the birthers – the movement of folks who believe, against overwhelming evidence to the contrary, that President Obama was not really born in Hawaii, and is thus not a U.S. citizen.
http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/07/28/politics/politicalhotsheet/entry5193422.shtml




Barack Obama’s Birth Certificate From Hawaii
http://tinyurl.com/63qw47
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2008/06/13/bobirthcertificate.jpg

Born in the U.S.A. The truth about Obama's birth certificate.
August 21, 2008 / Updated: November 1, 2008
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

Proof Obama was born in America
http://tinyurl.com/4ykzex
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp

"Not all Mike G. BUT many do which discredits the Tea Bag movement."

Caspian, discredit? Conspiracies come about because of mistrust and often not a deliberate attempt to propagandize. We all SAW planes fly into the WTC, yet there are many on the left especially, that don't trust Bush that think there was a deliberate plan to blow up the towers from inside. I can't see how that is any different.

I certainly think the initial question about Obama's citizenship was legitimate, simply because his father did not live in America. I also always heard that Obama refused to show his birth certificate, which is obviously not true, after viewing the links you provided, which were very helpful.

We live in a world where we simply do not have any faith in each other. It's not just today. There was a movie made in the 70's called Capricorn One. A fiction movie about how the government would go to any means to cover-up a failed Mars Mission. We are lied to so much that even with ample evidence to the contrary, we still hold on to our doubts. If you look around you will see it is not just about Obama or about the Tea party for that matter.

Mike G. what really discredits the Tea Bags is the money behind them.

The Tea Bags "WILL" vote in another corporate Republican in the next election.

Whoever that person is he will have the same backers as Obama.

So Mike G. and Caspian will lose again and Wall Street will win as usual.

Even Sarah Palin is backing John McCain over the other corporate hack JD Hayworth.

------------------------

THE LEADERS OF THE TEA BAGS ARE THE SAME PEOPLE WHO DESTROYED AMERICA! Republicans Newt Gingrich & Dick Armey

Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999
Bill Clinton and the Republicans did away with oversight.
President Bill Clinton signed this into law with 54 Republicans voting yes and 44 Democrats voting no./ http://tinyurl.com/5lwv6z
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=106&session=1&vote=00105

Who Is Funding the Health Care Furor?
WALL STREET IS BEHIND REPUBLICAN DICK ARMEY AND THE TEA BAGS! / September 18, 2009 / http://tinyurl.com/nhnz68 A Bill Moyers essay on the protests in Washington, D.C. and whose funding opposition to health care reform.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/09182009/watch3.html

"THE LEADERS OF THE TEA BAGS ARE THE SAME PEOPLE WHO DESTROYED AMERICA! Republicans Newt Gingrich & Dick Armey..Who Is Funding the Health Care Furor?"

Caspian, You are missing the point and the above comments are left wing propaganda designed to stop opposition to this administrations wrong policies.

The point you are missing is that most people are truly angry with the dictates of this administration. From non-stop big government spending to Obamacare, the PEOPLE are against it and the Democrats are NOT siding with the people but with THEIR party and THEIR leader.

The Republicans have a common goal with the people to vote THESE Democrats out of power. Those who clearly refuse to represent US. The people / tea party are NOT being led by the Republicans but the Republicans are simply harnessing the anger that we are expressing.

You know, there are also Tea party candidates running against Republicans. Ultimately, it really comes down to only two choices. We either keep the current self serving knuckleheads in power or vote in new ones. The people say we vote in new ones, with the outside chance a few of them will turn out to be better.

The point you are missing is that most people are truly angry with the dictates of this administration

=========================

Mike G. I agree both liberals and conservatives are mad hell against Bush/Cheney and now Obama/Biden.

You still fail to recognize that you cannot change something already established between the Republicans and Democrats.

Both parties work for Wall Street and not main street.

If a Republican wins in 2012 or if Obama stays in power nothing will change in Washington DC.

Third party is the only way forward IMO.

Even Clinton balanced the budget without any Republican help when Al Gore had to break the tying vote in the Senate.

I still would not want to go back to the corporate Democrats and you Mike G. shouldn't want to put another corporate Bush Republican in power.

==============

Newt Gingrich and his neo-con Republicans took control of Congress back in 1994 to 2006. 12 straight years.

When Bush stole the election in 2000 most of his 8 years he had a Republican House, Republican Senate, Republican Governors of most States and Republicans in most State Houses all across America.

Plus the Supreme Court has been Rightwing Republican for decades.

The Republican party could have overturned Roe v. Wade for many years and they did not do it.

Republicans need that issue for votes so I believe they will never undo Roe vs. Wade.

"Both parties work for Wall Street and not main street." "If a Republican wins in 2012 or if Obama stays in power nothing will change in Washington DC." "Third party is the only way forward IMO."

Caspian, IMO you are not facing reality and your statements are clearly telling me You prefer THIS administration to the Clinton administration. I prefer ANY administration over this one and that is the reality we can decide come November.

Your dream of a fair and honest government representing the people may come true someday but not today. Today we ONLY have two choices:

1) Keep these Democrats in power.
2) Add some real checks and balances.

As a non-partisan I don’t care which party is in power only that it works. Clearly, this democrat majority led by Obama is not working.

In the movie “The Lord of the Rings” no human could resist the total power of a supernatural ring, so they put in the hands of a simple creature called a Hobbit. Our founders knew, no one party could resist taking advantage of us with total power so they devised a two party system. This system or BALANCE of power is our Hobbit, so to speak. It is also a real third party. The biggest threat to our nation exists from within, from those in power who look to destroy this system, so there would be nothing to stop their unbridled control.

So what of the Corporate power you often mention? I know if we gave complete power to the corporations they would not share that with us. If the government was honest and totally controlled these same Corporations, would that be better for us? Probably about the same way raising the minimum raise is better for us. We need a system, a Hobbit so to speak, that is not affected by greed or power. That system exists. It is called competition and leverage by the consumer, taxpayers and laborers but we have a problem. The government will not give us back the ring. So we need to vote them out with whatever candidates we have available and try to get the ring back where it belongs WITH THE PEOPLE.

As a non-partisan I don’t care which party is in power only that it works. Clearly, this democrat majority led by Obama is not working.

=======================

I wholeheartedly agree with your statement and the reason is Obama and his corporate Democrats are continuing most of the failed Bush/Cheney policies that got us into this mess.

Obama is Bush in many respects and even keeping some Bush appointments in charge.

Bailing out Wall Street without main street is what Bush did.

Obama will not leave Iraq even if he lasts 8 years in office.

Afghanistan is another Bush war that was not won and is not winnable IMO.

Obama is spying on all Americans and made deals with the Health Industry just like Bush did.

Obama is cutting taxes in a time of two wars and 9 years after September 11, 2001 just like Bush did.

Obama took Glass/Steagall off the table.

Obama took Single Payer health care off the table.

This Obama is liberal in name only but all his policies are very similar to Bush.

===========================

Excerpt from "Why We Didn't Remove Saddam" by George Bush [Sr.] and Brent Scowcroft, Time (2 March 1998):
While we hoped that popular revolt or coup would topple Saddam, neither the U.S. nor the countries of the region wished to see the breakup of the Iraqi state. We were concerned about the long-term balance of power at the head of the Gulf. Trying to eliminate Saddam, extending the ground war into an occupation of Iraq, would have violated our guideline about not changing objectives in midstream, engaging in "mission creep," and would have incurred incalculable human and political costs. Apprehending him was probably impossible. We had been unable to find Noriega in Panama, which we knew intimately. We would have been forced to occupy Baghdad and, in effect, rule Iraq. The coalition would instantly have collapsed, the Arabs deserting it in anger and other allies pulling out as well. Under those circumstances, furthermore, we had been self-consciously trying to set a pattern for handling aggression in the post-cold war world. Going in and occupying Iraq, thus unilaterally exceeding the U.N.'s mandate, would have destroyed the precedent of international response to aggression we hoped to establish. Had we gone the invasion route, the U.S. could conceivably still be an occupying power in a bitterly hostile land. It would have been a dramatically different--and perhaps barren--outcome.

"I wholeheartedly agree with your statement and the reason is Obama and his corporate Democrats are continuing most of the failed Bush/Cheney policies that got us into this mess."

Caspian, from the list you provided there is not much difference. I would even agree that the Republicans don't care about us, that they care only about big business and business only cares about money. However, being ignored is not my concern. My concern is being controlled and these Democrats seem to be all about control and power. That's my motivation to vote them out.

Obamacare was forced down our throats "for our own good". Unbridled spending with bailouts and Stimulus "for our own good". What are other possibilities? Censor our information, for our own good, take away our guns to protect us, tell us what we can eat, tell the states they can't enforce their laws, try to silence anyone that disagrees with them, disarm our military for the worlds own good, tax the air we breath out, for the worlds own good, allow amnesty for the worlds own good? This road we appear to be on, a road of seemingly good intentions, is a road to a Hell that would, in the end, make the Bush years seem good in comparison.

In November I am voting out the Democrats that went against the people and backed Obama / Pelosi, for only one reason.

FOR OUR OWN GOOD!

Mike G. everything you state against Obama is what I believe Bush/Cheney did for 8 years.

So how is voting in another corporate Bush Republican in 2012 going to help you or me?

Nobody wanted the Big Pharma Bush Bill that was voted on 3 am in the middle of the night.

Tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans in a time of two wars and after 9/11/01 was shameful, disgraceful, and morally wrong.

The worst financial meltdown was on the Bush/Cheney watch.

Invaded Iraq which was the wrong country and let al Qaeda go free in Afghanistan, Waziristan, and Pakistan.

Mike you know the litany.

As I told you before if the Tea Bags start a third party against the Republicans then it would be refreshing to see.

Same is true of all liberal/progressives voting out all corporate Obama Democrats.

I finally learned that these two parties are really ONE CORPORATE PARTY and not liberal or conservative.

Liberal and Conservative in name only.

======================
Twenty-five people at the heart of the meltdown
26 January 2009 / http://tinyurl.com/bwrl8l
The worst economic turmoil since the Great Depression is not a natural phenomenon but a man-made disaster in which we all played a part. In the second part of a week-long series looking behind the slump, Guardian City editor Julia Finch picks out the individuals who have led us into the current crisis
1. Alan Greenspan, chairman of US Federal Reserve 1987- 2006 2. Mervyn King, governor of the Bank of England 3. Bill Clinton, former US president 4. Gordon Brown, prime minister 5. George W Bush, former US president 6. Senator Phil Gramm 7. Abby Cohen, Goldman Sachs chief US strategist 8. Kathleen Corbet, former CEO, Standard & Poor's 9. Hank" Greenberg, AIG insurance group 10. Andy Hornby, former HBOS boss
11. Sir Fred Goodwin, former RBS boss 12. Steve Crawshaw, former B&B boss
13. Adam Applegarth, former Northern Rock boss 14. Dick Fuld, Lehman Brothers chief executive 15. Ralph Cioffi and Matthew Tannin 16. Lewis Ranieri 17. Joseph Cassano, AIG Financial Products 18. Chuck Prince, former Citi boss 19. Angelo Mozilo, Countrywide Financial 20. Stan O'Neal, former boss of Merrill Lynch
21. Jimmy Cayne, former Bear Stearns boss 22. Christopher Dodd, chairman, Senate banking committee 23. Geir Haarde, Icelandic prime minister 24. The American public
25. John Tiner, FSA chief executive, 2003-07 26. Andrew Lahde 27. John Paulson, hedge fund boss 28. Professor Nouriel Roubini 29. Warren Buffett, billionaire investor 30. George Soros, speculator 31. Stephen Eismann, hedge fund manager 32. Meredith Whitney, Oppenheimer Securities
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/jan/26/road-ruin-recession-individuals-economy


======================
The Dirty Dozen
Meet the bankers and brokers responsible for the financial crisis - and the officials who let them get away with it / Mar 25, 2009 / http://tinyurl.com/cpv5lo
The Enabler ALAN GREENSPAN / The Pioneer SANDY WEILL
The Ideologue PHIL GRAMM / The Arsonist JOE CASSANO
The Bagman ROBERT RUBIN / The Card Shark JIMMY CAYNE / Mr. Buck Passer CHRISTOPHER COX / The Predator ANGELO MOZILO / The Decorator JOHN THAIN / The Maestro HENRY PAULSON / The Big Loser DICK FULD / Mr. Too Big KEN LEWIS /
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/26868968/the_dirty_dozen/print

==========================

The IMF's Dirty Dozen

The top 12 reasons to protest the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank

"So how is voting in another corporate Bush Republican in 2012 going to help you or me?"

Caspian, again, it won't help to address the issues you listed but it would prevent further control by governmnet in our lives.

For example; If we had all Corporate Bush Republicans in last year do you think Obamacare would have passed? Certainly, we need healthcare improvement but I think Obamacare is WORSE then doing nothing.

Also, do you think taxing more with cap and trade, capital gains, dividends and companies, is an automatic plus for us? In my view it is like the Stimulus. The Stimulus in the end results in a bigger deficit and no real growth. In a similar way more taxes will result in more job loss hurting the private sector workers and no real income for anybody. What we need is the right amount of regulations and INCENTIVE to grow business. A republican doing nothing is not good but still better then doing the wrong thing IMO.

For example; If we had all Corporate Bush Republicans in last year do you think Obamacare would have passed?

-------------------

You Betcha , Absolutely Yes, and it was done in 2003 and again in 2006 with Bush/Cheney Senior Citizen prescription drug bills that mostly benefit the HMO/Pharma.

That is the reason why I voted for Ralph Nader in the General election and Ron Paul in the Republican primary.

Because Obama/Biden and McCain/Palin work for Wall Street and not main street.

========================

Key health care senators have industry ties
06/12/2009 / http://tinyurl.com/lhmgno
WASHINGTON -- Influential senators working to overhaul the nation's health care system have investments and family ties with some of the biggest names in the industry. The wife of Sen. Chris Dodd, the lawmaker in charge of writing the Senate's bill, sits on the boards of four health care companies.
Members of both parties have industry connections, including Democrats Jay Rockefeller and Tom Harkin, in addition to Dodd, and Republicans Tom Coburn, Judd Gregg, John Kyl and Orrin Hatch, financial reports showed Friday. .
Jackie Clegg Dodd, wife of the Connecticut Democrat, is on the boards of Javelin Pharmaceuticals Inc., Cardiome Pharma Corp., Brookdale Senior Living and Pear Tree Pharmaceuticals.
Dodd is filling in for ailing Sen. Edward Kennedy, D-Mass., chairman of the Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee, which will soon start work on a health care bill. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31331116/

Sticking the Public With the Bill for the Bankers’ Crisis
by Naomi Klein / June 28, 2010 / http://tinyurl.com/2ddcy5u
My city feels like a crime scene and the criminals are all melting into the night, fleeing the scene. No, I’m not talking about the kids in black who smashed windows and burned cop cars on Saturday.
I’m talking about the heads of state who, on Sunday night, smashed social safety nets and burned good jobs in the middle of a recession. Faced with the effects of a crisis created by the world's wealthiest and most privileged strata, they decided to stick the poorest and most vulnerable people in their countries with the bill.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/06/28-1

"You Betcha , Absolutely Yes, and it was done in 2003 and again in 2006 with Bush/Cheney Senior Citizen prescription drug bills that mostly benefit the HMO/Pharma."

Caspian, you don't see the difference because you are looking at it through how it benefits corporations ONLY but there is a HUGE difference between Obamcare and the Bush drug program. Wow, you must really think that all the town hall anger last year was simply corporate politics. It wasn't that at all. It was grass roots.

The HUGE GIGANTIC difference between Obamcare and the Bush drug program is that we the people are being MANDATED to buy into it, our employee health benefits will be taxed to the hilt, there will be some sort of rationing to afford Obamcare across the board and it effects EVERYBODY, not just seniors.

Frankly, I am taken back by your statement. Your quest for Corporate justice and fairness to main street over wall street is a worthy cause for sure. However, while you are staring at the evil corporations in front of you, there is big government sneaking up behind you to steal not only your money but your freedom and liberty. All I am saying is turn around and be careful of those covering your back, who you think are you friends.

All I am saying is turn around and be careful of those covering your back, who you think are you friends.

=======================

Mike G. I admire very few in the House and even less in the Senate.

There are only 5 or 6 liberal Senators who cannot stop the Obama corporate Democrats.

The same was true with the few conservatives who could not stop corporate Bush Republicans.

I was totally against Obamacare because he started with Single Payer off the table.

Liberals did not even get a Public Option.

We basically got the Mitt Romney health care which is a Republican corporate plan.

Wall Street won and We The People lost.

The same HMO/Pharma who wrote the Bush drug bills are pretty much the same people who wrote the Obamacare.

--------------------------

Revolving door for health care aides / 9/15/09 / http://tinyurl.com/q243zq
Some of the most influential aides in the closed-door Senate Finance Committee negotiations over health care reform have ties to interests that would be directly affected by the legislation.
Before she was hired last year as senior counsel to Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D-Mont.), Liz Fowler worked as a highly paid public policy adviser for WellPoint Inc., the nation’s largest publicly traded health benefits company.
Mark Hayes, health policy director and chief health counsel for Finance Committee ranking member Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), is married to a registered lobbyist for a firm that represents drug companies and hospital groups, although the couple says she doesn’t lobby Grassley’s office.
Frederick Isasi, a health policy adviser to Sen. Jeff Bingaman (D-N.M.), was a registered lobbyist at Powell Goldstein, where his clients included public hospitals and the American Stroke Association.
Kate Spaziani, senior health policy aide to Sen. Kent Conrad (D-N.D.), was also a registered lobbyist at Powell Goldstein, although Conrad’s office says she worked as a lawyer — not as a lobbyist — for public hospitals on Medicare issues.
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0909/27155.html

For Mike G.

Evan Bayh: Hypocrisy on the Public Option
10/29/09 / http://tinyurl.com/yhlqnft
WASHINGTON (TheStreet) -- Evan Bayh, the junior senator from Indiana, is in the middle of a heated debate in the Senate on whether a public option should be included as part of President Obama's health care reforms. An organizer of a group of so-called Senate Blue Dog Democrats, to date, Bayh's been a staunch opponent of any changes to the status quo in this debate.
He's worried aloud that any public option would be a nod to socialism and counter to his principles as a fiscal conservative. When pressed on the issue, he's said he's simply a vessel reflecting the views of his Indiana constituents.
Yet Bayh, who until very late in the campaign last year was considered a top contender to be Obama's vice president, is at best naive and disingenuous, and at worst supremely hypocritical in pushing his views as those of his voters.
His wife, Susan Bayh, sits on the board of WellPoint(WLP Quote) in her hometown of Indianapolis. Over the last six years, Susan Bayh has received at least $2 million in compensation from WellPoint alone for serving on its board.
http://www.thestreet.com/story/10618234/1/evan-bayh-hypocrisy-on-the-public-option.html

To Mike G.:

Uncle Bucky William H.T. Bush sits on the board of Health Care with Susan Bayh the Democratic Senators wife.
http://tinyurl.com/yjxnggq
http://ir.wellpoint.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=130104&p=irol-govboard

Feingold:'Standing Up to the Unholy Alliance Between Washington and Wall Street'
Statement by Sen. Russ Feingold (D-WI)

June 30, 2010 / http://tinyurl.com/28nblfs

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2010/06/30-9

"We basically got the Mitt Romney health care which is a Republican corporate plan."

Caspian, I agree, republicans would not have opted for a single payer and they would have wanted a corporate plan.

However, I am convinced they would not have forced Romneycare down our throats like the Dems did with Obamacare, since the people were so against it. They simply would have left the health care alone, like they did for 8 years of Bush and allowed private corporations to run it. Obamacare is a GOVERNMENT RUN, GOVERNMENT CONTROLLED, GOVERNMENT MANDATED health care, it goes beyond a corporate plan.

In essence, what you are saying is that the Republicans all along really wanted Obamacare to pass and the stonewalling was just an act. That buying insurance out of state and keeping it out of government control was simply a farce, including other ideas like tort reform, all just a rouse. Even I am not that cynical.

You see Caspian, there is a difference between the parties. These Democrats in power, want to control our lives with big government AND give power to corporations over us. While the Republicans will also give power to the corporatism over us, they don't try to control our lives with big government policies like these Democrats are doing.

In essence, what you are saying is that the Republicans all along really wanted Obamacare to pass and the stonewalling was just an act.

============

Yes it is always an act and BOTH sides play that game to bamboozle the masses.

Mike G. the government negosiating lower drug prices was rejected by both parties.

The Public Option was rejected by both parties.

Single Payer was never even on the table.

The government cut medicare funds.

I do not understand where you are getting this crazy idea that this Obamacare is a government plan.

The opposite is true.

======================

Watchdog Group Sues for Disclosure of White House Meetings with Healthcare Execs / July 23, 2009 / http://tinyurl.com/mby2t4
I want to just talk about some of the names, as they’ve released this, naming some of the healthcare executives who have made multiple trips to the Obama White House.
Richard Umbdenstock, the president of the American Hospital Association, has visited the White House eight times since Obama took office, beginning on February 3rd, two weeks after Obama’s inauguration.
Former Congressman Billy Tauzin has visited five times, now head of the drug industry lobby, the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America, known as PhRMA.
Dr. James Rohack, president-elect of the American Medical Association, has visited four times, as has Karen Ignagni, president and CEO of America’s Health Insurance Plans, an industry trade group.
Other healthcare executives who have made multiple visits to the Obama White House include Jeffrey Kindler, CEO of drugmaker Pfizer; Stephen Hemsley, chief executive of UnitedHealth Group; George Halvorson, head of Kaiser Foundation Health Plan; Richard Clark, CEO of the Merck pharmaceutical company; Jay Gellert, CEO of Health Net; and Rick Smith, senior vice president of PhRMA, which Billy Tauzin heads.
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/7/23/watchdog_group_sues_for_disclosure_of

Health Insurance Company CEOs Total Compensation in 2008
A few months back we posted the Total Compensation for a number of Health Insurance Company CEOs for 2007. Those numbers, culled from the companies’ SEC filings (Schedule 14A) appears immediately below. Below that are the numbers for 2008, courtesy of FierceHealthcare.com through Jan Rodolpho, RN.
http://tinyurl.com/msbzkb
Ins. Co. & CEO With 2007 Total CEO Compensation
Aetna Ronald A. Williams: $23,045,834
Cigna H. Edward Hanway: $25,839,777
Coventry Dale B. Wolf : $14,869,823
Health Net Jay M. Gellert: $3,686,230
Humana Michael McCallister: $10,312,557
U.Health Grp Stephen J. Hemsley: $13,164,529
WellPoint Angela Braly (2007): $9,094,271
L. Glasscock (2006): $23,886,169
Ins. Co. & CEO With 2008 Total CEO Compensation
Aetna, Ronald A. Williams: $24,300,112
Cigna, H. Edward Hanway: $12,236,740
Coventry, Dale Wolf: $9,047,469
Health Net, Jay Gellert: $4,425,355
Humana, Michael McCallister: $4,764,309
U. Health Group, Stephen J. Hemsley: $3,241,042
Wellpoint, Angela Braly: $9,844,212
http://www.healthreformwatch.com/2009/05/20/health-insurance-ceos-total-compensation-in-2008/

Mike G. yes the mandate does force you to buy insurance just like when you drive your car.

The last time I checked the Insurance companies are making the money.

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"We can have democracy in this country or we can have great concentrated wealth in the hands of a few, but we cannot have both."
--Louis Brandeis Supreme Court Justice 1941

"The two greatest obstacles to democracy in the United States are, first, the widespread delusion among the poor that we have a democracy, and second, the chronic terror among the rich, lest we get it."
--Edward Dowling

Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.
--Benito Mussolini

“I do not understand where you are getting this crazy idea that this Obamacare is a government plan... yes the mandate does force you to buy insurance just like when you drive your car.”

Caspian, first off, it is unlike any other mandate. I think it is unconstitutional to force people to buy something. Whether it be car insurance, mal-practice insurance, flood insurance and so on you have the option to not drive or not buy a house. Even taxes are based on earnings or something you purchase or own but Obamacare wants money from you simply for existing and it does not matter if you are employed or not.

I don’t understand how it is you don’t see this most certain attempt by this administration to control every aspect of our lives. Its not just Obamacare
it’s evident in other policies as well. Government run does not mean they are providing, just that government is controlling how we purchase and are taking away our liberties as free individuals. If this is just private insurance then why all the taxes, why the mandate, why is bigger government needed? They are making it so we must buy what they say to buy and nobody gets more or less. Just some of the facts should start to paint the picture:

Obamcare.
"Expands the power of the IRS to enforce a government mandate that requires Americans to purchase government-approved insurance"

"Obamacare will create 159 new boards and commissions, the costs of which have been estimated to be around $60 billion over the next 10 years."

"Under Obamacare, the premiums of all insurance plans are going to increase, many significantly."

"40% Tax: A 40 percent tax would be imposed on insurance companies providing “Cadillac” health plans valued at more than $10,200 for individuals and $27,500 for families. The tax would kick in starting in 2018."

"The Obama administration has already confessed that there will be health care rationing under this law."

"Increases premiums by 10% for people without employer-based insurance"

"The maximum amount you can set aside pre-tax for health care costs in a flexible spending account will be reduced from $5,000 to $2,500."

Caspian, do you get the picture? Respectfully, if not, perhaps you are too busy looking back at the accident down the street, while the truck right in front of you is about to plow you over. We all need to be aware of our current surroundings to prevent a future tragedy.

We all need to be aware of our current surroundings to prevent a future tragedy.
----------------------

Mike G.

Obama is doing what Bush did for 8 years by benefiting his backers.

Look at the weak Financial,Climate,and Health Care bills.

The wealth keeps trickling upward and not downward to we the people.

Obama/Biden and McCain/Palin agreed with Bush/Cheney to bailout Wall Street and not main street.

Obama is screwing this country just like Bush did IMO.

Okay Caspian, you have the right to keep looking at the past at what Bush did and ONLY the things that Obama does that relates to Bush and Corporations. Ignore everything else at your own peril. For now at least, it is still you right to do so but that may not be the case much longer. I still plan to defend both your rights and mine with or without you, by making every effort to vote out these big government Democrats in November.

I will be voting them out also and will continue to vote in any third party like Ralph Nader, or even Bob Barr the libertarian because they put people and the constitution first.

Obama is continuing the big government of George W. Bush and his corporate Republicans and corporate Blue Dog Democrats which destroyed America.

Caspian, I understand and any other time I would join you in voting in a third party but not this time. For certain, voting in a third party would mean this Administration remains and we can't afford that.

I don't like the job the Republicans did they did things that weakened the peoples power and leverage and gave that power to big business. However, unlike you, I don't think they destroyed America. I think we can get it back because business is about money and we can fight that.

Big Government, however is about power and control over our lives, destroying our freedom and liberty. We still have some of that but IMO these Democrats are trying to take that away as quick as they can. Then America will be destroyed but for now, we still have hope.

Then America will be destroyed but for now, we still have hope.

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Mike G. All hope is lost unless third and fourth parties get elected to Congress.

The primaries are the most important and both parties in collusion with corporate mainstream media and corporate rightwing shut them out.

MIKE G. WE LOST FREEDOM MANY YEARS AGO, and like frogs slowly boiling in a pot, we did not realize it.

Taxes without representation.

Spying on all Americans.

Government subsidies for big business.

Tax cuts for the wealthiest who don't need it.

Outsourcing.

Corporate mail boxes in other countries.

Corporate Welfare.

Just to name a few.

================================

1948 Smith-Mundt Act The 1948 Smith-Mundt Act prohibited the domestic dissemination of United States government propaganda. The reasoning behind Smith-Mundt was that Congress wanted to be certain that a United States government agency could not brainwash our own citizens as Hitler had done in Germany.

=============================

No Debate: How the Republican and Democratic Parties Secretly Control the Presidential Debates / http://tinyurl.com/4q5vf8 / October 2, 2008
The Obama and McCain campaigns jointly negotiated a detailed, secret contract dictating the terms of all the 2008 debates. This includes who gets to participate as well as the topics raised during the debates. We speak to Open Debates founder and executive director George Farah.
Whats missing however is any concern about the fairness of the very structure of the debate. The Obama and McCain campaigns jointly negotiated a detailed contract dictating the terms of all the 2008 debates. This includes who gets to participate as well as the topics raised during the debates. But the contract remains secret and the Commission on Presidential Debates, a private corporation created by the two major parties, has refused to release the contract to the public.
Open Debates is a non-profit committed to democratizing the presidential debate process. Last month Open Debates and nine other pro-democracy groups called on the Commission to make the contract public.
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/10/2/no_debate_how_the_republican_and

Mike G. All hope is lost unless third and fourth parties get elected to Congress.

Caspian, that may help but it won't fix the problem I'm afraid. Rather then look toward government for answers and assistance, we need to rely on ourselves, our families, friends and our local communities. Make it so, we don't need government or need them as little as possible in our lives.

I believe it's true that the battle for a fair and honest government is lost. It's like the Gospel. There is no way to remove the weeds, without destroying the good plants as well. So instead of trying to fix the problem, we should look toward our communities for the answers.

In essence our government is taken over by weeds and beyond repair but we the people, all have our own gardens and we don't want government invading these private gardens. Our hope is to keep government as small as possible, to help and prevent that. Then give to Caesar what is Caesar and to God what is Gods. A big centralized corrupt government only spreads that corruption everywhere. There is still some freedom to be found in our individual lives and communities. Enough individual lives sharing the same ideals will help to protect us.

I believe it's true that the battle for a fair and honest government is lost.

==============

Amen Mike G. my friend!

Now work like hell to elect Tea Party members who will not take Wall Street money.

Ralph Nader and his ilk do not take Wall Street funding.

BTW: I already voted for Ron Paul in the Republican primary and I like his son also even if I disagree with other issues.

They have the right idea on many issues on the conservative side.

Too be honest Dennis Kucinich, Mike Gravel and Ralph Nader have many of the same good ideas on the liberal side.

Proving that authentic conservatives and authentic liberals could work together.

A POX ON BOTH REPUBLICAN AND DEMOCRATIC HOUSES.

Mike read this book "Free Lunch" and you will never vote for another corporate Bush Republican or corporate Clinton Democrat.

That also includes McCain and Obama!
=======================

Free Lunch: How the Wealthiest Americans Enrich Themselves at Government Expense
(And Stick You with the Bill) January 18, 2008 / http://tinyurl.com/2yequa
Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist David Cay Johnston joins us to talk about his new book, “Free Lunch: How the Wealthiest Americans Enrich Themselves at Government Expense (And Stick You with the Bill).” Johnston reveals how government subsidies and new regulations have quietly funneled money from the poor and the middle class to the rich and politically connected.
http://www.democracynow.org/2008/1/18/free_lunch_how_the_wealthiest_americans

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