The Wall Street Journal, 11/18/10, "Boehner Warns GOP on Debt Ceiling": An increase is needed o protect the full faith and credit of the US government. "Whether we like it or not, the federal government has obligations."

Jan, 2011: "You can't not raise the debt ceiling."

But as SPEAKER Boehner, he declared he would hold the debt ceiling hostage. "There's no daylight between the Tea Party and me."

Yet, at a private meeting with Tea Partiers, Boehner said we'll definitely have to raise the debt ceiling (no mention of conditions, concessions), "and we're going to have to raise it again in the future," because the retirement of Baby Boomers will keep the budget unbalanced for another 20 years, and it will take maybe another 30 years beyond that to erase the deficit.

Let me borrow this from "Crooks and Liars":

"Leave aside for the moment that Ronald Reagan tripled the national debt and increased the debt ceiling 17 times. Forget also George W. Bush nearly doubled the debt or that the Bush tax cuts were the biggest driver of debt over the past decade, and if made permanent, would be continue to be so over the next. Pay no attention to the federal tax burden now at its lowest level in 60 years or income inequality at its highest level in 80 years after a decade of plummeting rates for America's supposed job creators who don't create jobs. Ignore for now that Republican majorities voted seven times to raise the debt ceiling under President Bush and the current GOP leadership team voted a combined 19 times to bump the debt limit $4 trillion during his tenure. Look away from the two unfunded wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, the budget-busting Bush tax cuts of 2001 and 2003 and the Medicare prescription drug program because, after all, John Boehner voted for all of it.

Alas, that was then and this is now. And now, a Democrat is in the White House. Which means for John Boehner, raising the debt ceiling at all is now a 'concession.'"

Boehner shows in his comments that he's not a fool, but that he's a politician cleaving now to the favor of the Tea Party.

No, I do not blame the tea bags.

Obama did the same with implementing a Republican health care plan "WITHOUT" one Republican voting for it.

No public option and No single payer.

Obama will cut, cut, cut, without one Republican voting for it.

Obama only compromises with himself and then blames the Republicans.

The Tea Party is on the American People's side.

THIS DEBT DEBACLE IS 'AN INSIDE JOB' WHICH IS THE DOCUMENTARY WHICH BEGAN IN EUROPE AND SPREAD TO WALL STREET--ALL AS DOCUMENTED ON A DVD CALLED 'AN INSIDE JOB.'

I blame Paulson, Wall Street, George Soros, et al. Osama Bin Ladin tried to destroy the west with terrorists, was hunted down, killed and his assets seized.

Paulson, Wall Street, et al., IS destroying the United State with the FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS AND DEBT. ANYBODY THAT CAUSES THE COLLAPSE OF THE UNITED STATES SHOULD BE PROSECUTED AND THEIR ASSETS SEIZED TO SAVE THE COUNTRY IMMEDIATELY.


AN INSIDE JOB, a film documentary on DVD

Provided is an analysis of the global financial crisis of 2008, which at a cost over $20 trillion, caused millions of people to lose their jobs and homes in the worst recession since the Great Depression, and nearly resulted in a global financial collapse. Through exhaustive research, and extensive interviews with key financial insiders, politicians, journalists, and academics, traces the rise of a rogue industry which has corrupted politics, regulation, and academia.
Note Special features: deleted scenes ; making of ; commentary with director Charles Ferguson & producer Audrey Marrs, theatrical trailer.
Awards Academy Award for Best Documentary Feature, 2010.
Subject Global Financial Crisis, 2008-2009.
Global Financial Crisis, 2008-2009 -- Social aspects.
Global Financial Crisis, 2008-2009 -- Political aspects.
Financial crises.
Genre Documentary films.

"Boehner Warns GOP on Debt Ceiling":

"An increase is needed o protect the full faith and credit of the US government. "Whether we like it or not, the federal government has obligations."



No problem Mike......as soon as President Obama and the Democratic Congress finally agree to very meaningful cuts in spending without raising taxes, the full faith and credit of the US Government will instantly be restored. Anything short of this, the credit rating agencies such as S&P or Moodys will finally make us pay the piper with downgrades no matter what. The whole world is watching! Remember...Obama doesn't own the circus he's just the head clown.

WAKE UP AND SMELL THE ROSES!

Boehner or Obama--they are all looking for a bandaid. Combyaland. Rediculous!

TAKE THE BULL BY THE HORNS--A TRAITOROUS CRIME HAS BEEN COMMITTED TO CAUSE THE COLLAPSE OF THE COUNTRY!

UNITE AS A COUNRY! ARE YOU AN AMERICAN? SO FEW SHOULD NOT HAVE SO MUCH AS THE EXPENSE OF SO MANY? THE UNITED STATES HAS BEEN ROBBED BLIND!

PROSECUTE THOSE RESPONSIBLE-- SEIZE THEIR ASSETS TO SAVE THE COUNTRY NOW!


'AN INSIDE JOB' all documented on a dvd which is causing the collapse of the United State with debt.

The republican refusal to demand, or allow, the wealthy to pay their fair share of taxes is another example of how they get stuck playing to their base. Their inflexible, stubborn, selfish, and childish approach to this has resulted in my going from fairly independent to very anti-republican. I can not imagine ever voting for this party again.

"The republican refusal to demand, or allow, the wealthy to pay their fair share of taxes......."


Most of what is chronically reffered to
by the Democrats as "the wealthy" are not individuals at all but struggling small business barely making it it as it is. You want blood from a stone? New hiring is at a non existent or dismal pace...do you want this to go deeply into the negative, then go ahead and tax them so we can all go into another recession.

"The republican refusal to demand, or allow, the wealthy to pay their fair share of taxes......."


Most of what is chronically reffered to
by the Democrats as "the wealthy" are not individuals at all but struggling small business barely making it, as it is. You want blood from a stone? New hiring is at a non existent or dismal pace...do you want this to go deeply into the negative, then go ahead and tax them so we can all go into another recession.

"Anything short of this, the credit rating agencies such as S&P or Moodys will finally make us pay the piper with downgrades no matter what."-BF

Ah, the absolutist, black and white view.

"The whole world is watching!" The whole world was watching Wisconsin and sending support to the protestors. Considering that the largest Tea Party rally drew 150k people, while pro-public sector protests in Wisconsin and Ohio regularly drew such numbers, it looks like more people are against TP GOP ideology than favor it.

It's rare for enough signatures to be gathered to initiate the recall of a state senator. In Wisconsin, though, all six of the pivotal senators are now subject to recall. In primaries, all six of the GOP protest candidates (“fake” Democrats) lost to the real Democratic candidates, by two-thirds to one third. This is no fringe minority phenomenon.

Two-thirds of Americans (says Pew) want those earning over $250 thousand to be taxed at higher rates than now. Two-thirds want Social Security and Medicare left untouched. Two-thirds wanted a public option in the healthcare bill, understanding that this would one day lead to universal public health insurance, as in Canada.

The numbers just aren't in favor of the TP GOP getting its way.

"Most of what is chronically reffered to
by the Democrats as "the wealthy" are not individuals at all but struggling small business barely making it, as it is."

Well, that might be true if it were true. Mom and pop bodegas, small repair shops, and so on, are not in the $250k income range typically (less than 3% are). The Walmarts, the Exxons, and the like, yeah, are in the "wealthy" range, and no one, no one, no one is going to say that they'll close up shop if taxes go up from historic lows to more normal levels. Really now.

What Obamas sticking point? That he wants to raise taxes on the rich?

Lets go back in time, a year or so ago, when Obama had majorities in both houses.
What did Obama do with the Bush Tax cuts? He went against his campaign pledges, he went against the Dem leadership, who controled both houses, and he went against the majority of the American people who wanted the Bush Tax eliminated.

Now, how is your hero holding up the debt ceiling talks.....?????????

And, when SS and Medicare are looking not to good, what does your hero do? Lowers witholding taxes......Looks like your hero just wants to crash SS and Medicare sooner than expected.

fred: Since you repeated your question, I'll repeat my answer.

Obama's methods (he's not my hero. You assume that disliking Boehner's actions necessitates idolizing Obama. Talk about illogic!)are not conspicuous. He's said things that disappointed his base, and then later his saying these things turned out to be apparently calculated to gain an advantage in the argument. He doesn't have to ram anything; he just outsmarts those who have boxed themselves into an ideological corner. Well, sometimes.

Obama asks for a simple deficit ceiling hike, without conditions. That's what you call holding up talks?

House Says NO to Unlimited Debt
Published on May 31, 2011 | Human Events | John Hayward | Free Market Economy, Debt Ceiling, Spending and Debt

The House held an important vote tonight. Major media outlets are calling it “symbolic,” but it’s far more important that they want to admit.

By a vote of 97-318, the House of Representatives rejected President Obama’s demand for an unconditional increase to our national debt ceiling. Every single Republican voted against the measure, along with 82 Democrats. Joining the Republicans were such luminaries as House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi and DNC chair Debbie Wasserman-Schultz.

Q dont you have anything else to offer?

This is a cut and paste-fred

-Our economic 'illiteracy', shared by both political parties, guarantees that the real mechanism for job creation – the start up and growth phase funding of new businesses – is never properly recognized in our society. For 30 years ALL of the net new job creation in America has come from small and medium size businesses. Like it or not, venture capitalists, private equity investors, and yes, even big bank lenders, are the major creators of new jobs in our (fading) free enterpise system.
The entrepreneurs and equity investors in these companies take enormous financial risks and personal risks and the odds of success for any one investment are small. Since capital can now move freely to any market, more of our job creating risk capital is increasingly moving to high growth, investor friendly emerging markets which reward people who take risk in order to earn commensurate returns.
A society where 47% of families pay no taxes but receive transfer payments via the government tax machine conduit of the earnings of productive taxpayers, is doomed to failure.


-Speaking of jobs…Jeff Immelt, Obama’s advisor on his Jobs Comm announced that GE’s health care unit, the world’s biggest maker of medical imaging machines, is moving the headquarters of its 115-year-old X-ray business to Beijing. What a slap in the face in addition to paying no taxes. Another hypocritical lib.

-Speaking of hypocritical libs, Soros is closing his fund to outsiders so he is not subject to the Dodd-Frank regulations.

-I can only laugh-fred

Published on May 31, 2011 | Human Events | John Hayward | Free Market Economy, Debt Ceiling, Spending and Debt

The House held an important vote tonight. Major media outlets are calling it “symbolic,” but it’s far more important that they want to admit.

By a vote of 97-318, the House of Representatives rejected President Obama’s demand for an unconditional increase to our national debt ceiling. Every single Republican voted against the measure, along with 82 Democrats. Joining the Republicans were such luminaries as House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi and DNC chair Debbie Wasserman-Schultz.

There’s a lot of talk about Rep. Anthony Weiner’s underwear these days, but tonight the entire Democrat Party was caught with its pants down. The party split roughly down the middle on this vote, and while the end result was not unexpected, it was still a powerful repudiation of the President’s clear desire to have unlimited debt and spending without conditions.

“It’s fine, it’s fine,” said White House press secretary Jay Carney, using the same tone of voice as Monty Python’s Black Knight employed to insist that losing his leg was a “minor flesh wound.”

“We believe [spending cuts and increased debt] should not be linked, because there is no alternative that’s acceptable to raising the debt ceiling,” continued Carney. “But we’re committed to reducing the deficit.”

This vote was a deafening rejection of that threadbare “spend now, worry about the deficit tomorrow” rhetoric. The American people will no longer fall for vague promises of spending cuts and fiscal responsibility in the future, once the latest round of wild spending sprees have reached their exciting climax. The official position of the Democrat Party – that debt can increase without measure, while the deficit can be closed with a few big tax hikes on faceless rich people with thick wallets – has been officially declared a non-starter.

House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) pointed out that “the Obama Administration and congressional Democrats have repeatedly asked for a debt limit hike without any spending cuts and budget reforms, and the American people simply will not tolerate it.” He added that Congress needs “to create a better environment for private-sector job growth by stopping Washington from spending money it doesn’t have.” The Speaker’s web site notes a recent Resurgent Republic survey that found 9 in 10 voters opposed the President’s request for a debt ceiling increase without conditions.

Rep. Dave Camp (R-MI), chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, said tonight’s vote “sends a clear and critical message that the Congress has finally recognized we must immediately begin to rein in America’s affection for deficit spending.” That covers Step 1 of our 12-step program to beat our addiction to Big Government.

Step 2 in the classic Alcoholics Anonymous 12-step approach is “coming to believe a Power greater than ourselves can restore us to sanity.” Hey, that part’s easy too – look at that lovely Constitution our Founding Fathers gave us, to outline our God-given rights, and the limits of the federal government! The other 10 steps are going to be agonizing, but we’re off to a grand start tonight.

Of course, we won’t understand the true and lasting significance of the House vote until we find out what “conditions” the Republicans are willing to insist on. Rep. Mike Pence (R-IN) issued a statement saying he “cannot support increasing the debt ceiling without real and meaningful spending reductions and reforms,” and “everything starts with putting our fiscal house in order.”

A combination of ironclad spending caps and a balanced budget amendment are the only real and meaningful reforms that will put our rickety old firetrap of a fiscal house in order. If the Republicans hold that line, the greatest political battle of our lifetimes is now in progress. Tonight, the House declared America will not surrender to insolvency. Big Government will demand our surrender again, before this battle is done.

""The whole world is watching!" The whole world was watching Wisconsin and sending support to the protestors."


In your obstructed view only! The overwhelming majority of morons who stormed the capital were the Teachers Union people themselves supported by other union members fearful that they would be personally affected by any outcome.....all individuals with self fulfilling reasons that would be directly or indirectly be affected, and certainly not the majority of John Q average Americans. They were there not because it was the right thing to do for the country but were there for self and self only but not for the good of the nation.


"Well, that might be true if it were true. Mom and pop bodegas, small repair shops, and so on, are not in the $250k"

Nice doubletalk. Small businesses might also include street vendors but go up from there and statistically provide the most jobs to the economy than any other sector.

The Tea Party is the one voice of sanity in Washington, where out-of-control spending by a power-hungry administration is fully responsible for the current state of our economy. Cut! Cap! And balance!

yes I blame the tea party. They were financed by billionaires to be elected to create jobs. Not one job bill has been offered and there only claim to fame is try to destroy the middle class. They could care less whether the country went into default. Even senator mccain scolded them on the floor in a speech yesterday. The rich should pay more because the only qualification to receive a tax credit is be a millionaire. The comments that the majority of them is small business is nonsense and wrong. I believe small business should receive those credits and not the large oil co who subsidsies are outdated and make enourmous of monies. There should be a restriction that the tax credit would only be given if they created jobs. There are thousands of sport and entertainment figures who do not create jobs but get the tax credit anyway. What a waste.From 2000 to 2011 the tax credits only created 2 million jobs and it a waste of monies. Does charlie sheen get a tax credit to buy more cocaine? That quack dr sen coburn gave a speech yesterday on fraud in medicare and unemployment and the co committing these acts got away with tax evasion. I agree with him that these fraud cases should be persued to the fullest extent of the law. But he forgot to mention the 19000 corporations based in the cayman islands in a 4 story building is also evading taxes. I believe even fred the monkey would come down from his banana tree and agree these companies should pay their fair share. On the issue of welfare to the rich to pay more the republicans are silent and will not compromise at all. They also allow the outdated subsidies to go to large oil co rather than small co. They are stool pigeons for the wealthy and large corporations. Carl Rove the clown who runs american crossroads is about to spend nearly 40 million in the next election to target democrats. I wonder where he got the money. Not from the people but large corporations and the welathy who have stooges in congress called the republican party

The majority involved in the Tea Party are not millionaires or billionaires but everyday people that believe in principle. This principle was instilled in them by the greatest generation, one that believed in self reliance and sacrifice, so that their children could benefit. They are nothing like some selfish rich but are simply people of principle.

The "me" generation blames the Tea Party. This “me” generation thinks that they deserve to have whatever someone else has. It does not matter whether they earned it or can afford it they just want it, so they spend money they don’t have. Then when it comes time to pay the bills they point to the rich and say “they” can afford it, let “them” pay, not me. These irresponsible people are exactly like some selfish rich with their “me first” attitude and they don't even realize it.

"The whole world was watching Wisconsin and sending support to the protestors...In your obstructed view only!"

When scientists in Antarctica radioed in an order for pizza to be sent to the pro-public-sector protestors in Wisconsin, it completed a planet-wide sweep. Thirty two countries on all seven continents sent support for the protestors. How many Americans can even name thirty two countries? Any thirty two? It sure looks like the whole world WAS watching Wisconsin.

And if the massive numbers of protestors were "just" looking to save their jobs (How selfish of them! How America-hating!), and the mass of Americans supported starving out the public sector, how come there were not vastly larger counter protests in support of Walker?

As for the "small" business issue,-I don't know what criteria decide that one business is called "small" and another is "medium-sized". But the figure I heard was that only 3% (or fewer) of "small" businesses would be affected by a tax hike for the over-$250k income earners.

"Small businesses...provide the most jobs to the economy than any other sector."

Government (local, state, federal) is the largest job creator. Remember, that's what the "government waste" objectors are complaining about,-all those bureaucrats, scientists and engineers getting wages and benefits.

"This “me” generation thinks that they deserve to have whatever someone else has."

I think you're conflating two different sorts of people. There are people willing to accept unneeded money they did not earn. There are also people unwilling to accept needed money they did not earn. By far most people have an ingrained sense of prideful ethics, and are reluctant to accept charity. Yet, according to the pollsters, these same people believe it's only right that multi-billion-dollar corporations chip in their fair share into the society that enables them to exist.

"'For 30 years ALL of the net new job creation in America has come from small and medium size businesses.'"-uncited paste from fred

"Net?" "New?" Is there a trick intended by one or both of those words that makes it true that "all of the...job creation in America has come from small and medium size businesses"? When the state trooper pulls you over, tell him to get a job, and see what he says. Again, more jobs, new, old, net, gross, whatever, are created by government than by venture capitalists.

Duh. Where due I start?
How bout this: But the figure I heard was that only 3% (or fewer) of "small" businesses would be affected by a tax hike for the over-$250k income earners.

The taxed capital you cite are 'apples and oranges, but I'll leave it up to you to figure out. I cant do it! I have to help you as you are not intelligent enough understand the difference between business aka corporate taxes and personal taxes.

Next, the net jobs thing. I'm not even going to go there, because again you prove your utter impotecy itellectualy. I suggest you read up on capitalism, (which by the way is our system-like it or not). just google it.

This is fun!

Pete. The tea party is made up of factions- some a little left, but mostly center and center right of the silent majority. You know what the silent majority is, dont you? You can google that, while MikeQ is doing his homework.

BTW, imo, that silent majority is going to propel Ron Paul into probably second spot at the repug national convention. It may be too early to tell though. Btw, peter...the view is great up here in the coconut tree. I wish you could join me.

Intresting topic for the global warming crowd.

http://news.yahoo.com/nasa-data-blow-gaping-hold-global-warming-alarmism-192334971.html


http://news.yahoo.com/apnewsbreak-arctic-scientist-under-investigation-082217993.html

Obama’s and Bush’s effects on the deficit in one graph

Obama’s and Bush’s effects on the deficit in one graph

"BTW, imo, that silent majority is going to propel Ron Paul into probably second spot at the repug national convention."-Fred

Yep, the following are excerpts of a letter from Ron Paul and there is something in it for everybody. Caspian, your Ron Paul day is coming!

Dear Concerned American,

With the White House determined to tack on TRILLIONS more to our national debt, I need your IMMEDIATE help to send a critical message to the Republican congressional leadership. "Lead - or get out of the way!" The sad fact is, right now, Republican leaders can't make up their minds as to whether they want to lead or cut a backroom deal with President Obama...

(For BillF)
Conviction and leadership go hand in hand. If you don't know where you want to end up, it's virtually impossible to lead. That's the problem Republican leaders in Washington have right now. The current debate is filled with talk of fake cuts, budget gimmicks, and political stunts that both parties use to try to lay blame on each other without solving the problem...

(For Peter)
Even as I write you, rumors are swirling fast and furious. News reports are that Speaker Boehner is trying to ram through a deal to raise the debt ceiling by $900 billion with no real spending cuts. This is NOT what the American people overwhelmingly elected Republicans to do in 2010...

(For Mike Q)
The establishment is in full crisis mode. They see their gravy train of deficit spending and pork barrel politics in jeopardy. They see Wall Street fat cats in a full-blown panic.
They're bringing out the usual suspects to scare everyone - Geithner, Bernanke, and even Bush-era Treasury officials are being brought into secret congressional briefings to try to scare your representative and senators...

In fact, this is eerily reminiscent of something . . .The 2008 bank bailouts. The Republican establishment lining up to make a deal because they just don't have the backbone to fight. The White House promising certain doom if it doesn't get its way.

Don't let the Republican leadership cave in. Together, you and I can FORCE them to fight.

For Liberty,


Ron Paul

"Thirty two countries on all seven continents sent support for the protestors. How many Americans can even name thirty two countries?"


Why would anyone in this country give a rats ass what a handful of socialistic foreigners think who have most probably destroyed their own economies like Greece, Spain Ireland, Italy etc.,etc.etc. due to unrealistic pension and other inflated entitlement demands of their own??? In case you haven't noticed, the entire world's governments have recently had a wake up call to what happens when government makes monetary promises to labor that will eventually and most assuredly sink the entire system. Governor Walker and his administration in Wisconsin as Governor Christie in New Jersey are heroes for their stands in these struggles.

Now the little rats in the tea party is having boehner put into the house bill the balanced budget provision and to change the constitution so that the balanced budget is passed before raising the debt ceiling. Otherwise if they did not receive their way cantor ryan and boehner would lie on the floor of the house of rep and throw a temper tantrum until they got a candy. The republican party has been opened up to the insane asylum. Boehner can not control his own party. For the sake of our democracy the right wing kooks should be voted out of office at the next election and maybe some sanity would return to the gop so they could compromise with the democrats

Funny there is no mention from the glitter twins, of how gov cuomo and gov malloy are handling their states fiscal crisis.

"Today the path to total dictatorship in the United States can be laid by strictly legal means, unseen and unheard by the Congress, the President, or the people... outwardly we have a Constitutional government. We have operating within our government and political system, another body representing another form of government, a bureaucratic elite which believes our Constitution is outmoded and is sure that it is the winning side.... All the strange developments in the foreign policy agreements may be traced to this group who are going to make us over to suit their pleasure.... This political action group has its own local political support organizations, its own pressure groups, its own vested interests, its foothold within our government, and its own propaganda apparatus."
-1954 Senator William Jenner CFR member
________


"the 'house of world order' will have to be built from the bottom up rather than from the top down... but an end run around national sovereignty, eroding it piece by piece, will accomplish much more than the old-fashioned frontal assault." -(April, 1974 -- Former U. S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of State, Trilateralist and CFR member Richard Gardner's article The Hard Road to World Order is published in the ---> CFR's Foreign Affairs)

____________
1975 -- In Congress, 32 Senators and 92 Representatives sign A Declaration of Interdependence, written by historian Henry Steele Commager. The Declaration states that:

"we must join with others to bring forth a new world order... Narrow notions of national sovereignty must not be permitted to curtail that obligation."

Congresswoman Marjorie Holt refuses to sign the Declaration saying:

"It calls for the surrender of our national sovereignty to international organizations. It declares that our economy should be regulated by international authorities. It proposes that we enter a 'new world order' that would redistribute the wealth created by the American people."
___________________

1979 -- Barry Goldwater, retiring Republican Senator from Arizona, publishes his autobiography With No Apologies. He writes:

"In my view The Trilateral Commission represents a skillful, coordinated effort to seize control and consolidate the four centers of power -- political, monetary, intellectual, and ecclesiastical. All this is to be done in the interest of creating a more peaceful, more productive world community. What the "Trilateralists" truly intend is the creation of a worldwide economic power superior to the political governments of the nation-states involved. *They believe the abundant materialism they propose to create will overwhelm existing differences. As managers and creators of the system they will rule the future." YEAH RIGHT! WHAT A HOSE JOB.

THIRTY-EIGHT CENTS ($.38) OF EVERY DOLLAR SPENT BY THE GOVERNMENT IS BORROWED!


THERE IS NO 'CARE' ANY MORE--911 people denied care because no evidence the cancer was caused by 911.

NO 'CARE' ANYWHERE, THE HUMAN FACTOR HAS BEEN ELIMINATED IN OUR ECONOMY AND IT IS ALL ABOUT MAKING MONEY! E.G., THERE ARE NO JOBS, NO SERVICE, BECAUSE OF GREED--THERE ARE LOTS OF JOBS BUT THE BUSINESSES WONT HIRE ANYONE--SELF-SERVICE BUSINESSES--THESE BUSINESSES WANT EVERYTHING. THE CUSTOMER IS THE PAYING CUSTOMER AND IS STILL DOING THE WORK--NO SERVICE! AND, NO RESPECT BETWEEN THE SERVICES--NEUTERED, ONE SEX SOCIETY.

-SELF-SERVICE CHECKOUT AT WALRMARTS, grocery stores going the way of self-service for more profit from the lower classes especially

THERE ARE LOTS OF JOBS IF, AGAIN BIG IF, IF YOU SEE KAY (CODE), IF THE COMPANIES AND BUSINESSES WILL HIRE WORKERS AND PART WITH THEIR BILLION DOLLAR PROFITS--E.G., MOBIL-EXXON--CASE IN POINT--HOW MANY BILLIONS IN PROFIT DID IT MAKE LAST QUARTER, WHATEVER? AND THE COMPANY BRAGS ABOUT IT ON THE TELEVISION AND THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO SERVICE, EXCEPT SELF-SERVICE AT THEIR PUMPS WHOSE PROFITS ARE SOLELY FOR THE COMPANY EXECUTIVES AND STOCKHOLDERS.

-HIRE PEOPLE TO PUMP GAS AT THE GAS STATIONS, TO CLEAN THE WINDSHIELDS AND CHECK THE OIL
-CAR WASHES--SELF-SERVICE
-LAUNDROMAT--WHAT HAPPENED TO "NO TICKY, NO SHIRTY?"
-FRUIT STANDS BASED ON THE HONOR SYSTEM


ALL THESE JOBS HAVE BEEN ELIMINATED BY THE COMPANIES WHO WANT ALL THE PROFIT FOR THEMSELVES.

The lower class people should tell these big shots to send their sons to fight the wars. The rich don't want to share in the wealth, even in the creation of the wealth.



Also, these do-it-yourself stores--hire a professionals whether it is a carpenter, a plumber, roofer, whatever, instead of doing it yourself, thereby stimulating the creation of jobs and the economy. The stores will still make the money for supplies.

THIS DEBT HAS BEEN SNOWBALLING SINCE 1962---SINCE 1962!

THE DEBT BEGAN WHEN CONGRESS LIOERED THE INCOME TAX RATES BECAUSE THE PEOPLE--THE PEOPLE WANTED IT, SO CONGRESS STARTED BORROWINIG.


LYNDON B. JOHNSON EXPANDED THE GOVERNMENT AND THE VIET NAM WAR WAS PAID FOR USING THE DEBT.

THE DEBT HAS BEEN RAISED 74--(seventy-four) times since 1962.


THE DOLLAR IS TILL THE STANDARD OF THE WORLD.

THIS DEBT HAS BEEN SNOWBALLING SINCE 1962---SINCE 1962!

THE DEBT BEGAN WHEN CONGRESS LOWERED THE INCOME TAX RATES BECAUSE THE PEOPLE--THE PEOPLE WANTED IT, SO CONGRESS STARTED BORROWING.


LYNDON B. JOHNSON EXPANDED THE GOVERNMENT AND THE VIET NAM WAR WAS PAID FOR USING THE DEBT.

THE DEBT HAS BEEN RAISED 74--(seventy-four) times since 1962.


THE DOLLAR IS TILL THE STANDARD OF THE WORLD.

THIRTY-EIGHT CENTS ($.38) OF EVERY DOLLAR SPENT BY THE GOVERNMENT IS BORROWED!


THERE IS NO 'CARE' ANY MORE--911 people denied care because no evidence the cancer was caused by 911.

NO 'CARE' ANYWHERE, THE HUMAN FACTOR HAS BEEN ELIMINATED IN OUR ECONOMY AND IT IS ALL ABOUT MAKING MONEY! E.G., THERE ARE NO JOBS, NO SERVICE, BECAUSE OF GREED--THERE ARE LOTS OF JOBS BUT THE BUSINESSES WONT HIRE ANYONE--SELF-SERVICE BUSINESSES--THESE BUSINESSES WANT EVERYTHING. THE CUSTOMER IS THE PAYING CUSTOMER AND IS STILL DOING THE WORK--NO SERVICE! AND, NO RESPECT BETWEEN THE SERVICES--NEUTERED, ONE SEX SOCIETY.

-SELF-SERVICE CHECKOUT AT WALRMARTS, grocery stores going the way of self-service for more profit from the lower classes especially

THERE ARE LOTS OF JOBS IF, AGAIN BIG IF, IF YOU SEE KAY (CODE), IF THE COMPANIES AND BUSINESSES WILL HIRE WORKERS AND PART WITH THEIR BILLION DOLLAR PROFITS--E.G., MOBIL-EXXON--CASE IN POINT--HOW MANY BILLIONS IN PROFIT DID IT MAKE LAST QUARTER, WHATEVER? AND THE COMPANY BRAGS ABOUT IT ON THE TELEVISION AND THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO SERVICE, EXCEPT SELF-SERVICE AT THEIR PUMPS WHOSE PROFITS ARE SOLELY FOR THE COMPANY EXECUTIVES AND STOCKHOLDERS.

-HIRE PEOPLE TO PUMP GAS AT THE GAS STATIONS, TO CLEAN THE WINDSHIELDS AND CHECK THE OIL
-CAR WASHES--SELF-SERVICE
-LAUNDROMAT--WHAT HAPPENED TO "NO TICKY, NO SHIRTY?"
-FRUIT STANDS BASED ON THE HONOR SYSTEM
-GOT THE PAYING PUBLIC SORTING THEIR OWN GARBAGE--BIG IF--IF YOU SEE KAY--CODE--LET THE GARBAGE COMPANIES SORT THE GARBAGE--THAT IS WHAT THEY ARE BEING PAID FOR AND IN THE PROCESS MAY HAVE TO HIRE SOMEBODY.

-STOP EATING AT THESE ON THE RUN EATERIES--GO TO A SIT DOWN LUNCHONETTE AND ACT CIVILIZED, BE A HUMAN BEING AGAIN, THEREBY CREATING JOBS AND STIMULATING THE ECONOMY.

THE PEOPLE HAVE THE POWER--USE IT--DEMAND SERVICE--YOU ARE PAYING FOR IT, UNLESS YOU ARE ON THE PAYROLL OF THAT COMPANY.

AND DO ONE THING AND DO IT WELL--ELIMINATE ALL THESE CAFETERIAS FOR WHICH THE COMPANY GETS A TAX WRITEOFF.
THEREBY ENCOURAGING THE EMPLOYEES TO GO TO LUNCH--HOUR LONG LUNCHES, INSTEAD OF NO LUNCH, VISITING STORES, ETC.


ALL THESE JOBS HAVE BEEN ELIMINATED BY THE COMPANIES WHO WANT ALL THE PROFIT FOR THEMSELVES. The companies try to provide EVERYTHING TO KEEP THE EMPLOYEE CONFINED AND CONTROLLED. A MODERN DAY FEUDALISM. DON'T GIVE UP YOUR FREEDOM AND KEEP THE COMPANY POORER.

The lower class people should tell these big shots to send their sons to fight the wars. The rich don't want to share in the wealth, even in the creation of the wealth.



Also, these do-it-yourself stores--hire a professionals whether it is a carpenter, a plumber, roofer, whatever, instead of doing it yourself, thereby stimulating the creation of jobs and the economy. The stores will still make the money for supplies.

The gop otherwise known as greedy obnoxious pigs have a short memory when it comes to the deficit. The same ones who are "fiscally conservative" today are the sames who voted for the bush tax cuts 2 wars part d medicare and no way to pay for them. Then they handed obama a 11 trillion dollar deficit a despression and employees being laid off at the rate of 800,000 per month. Now they blame obama for spending. Of course he spent money we were in a depression and still have high unemployment. But wait where are all those jobs the tax cuts were supposed to produce. The house elected all the tea party on the basis to create jobs. They have not introduced 1 bill for job creation. So the next time these clowns throw their bull about the deficit and the blame let them go in and look in the mirror and they will find the cause of the deficit.

"Thirty two countries on all seven continents sent support for the protestors. How many Americans can even name thirty two countries?"

probably not the students you or mrs q have taught.

You would have received an A in my class had you written: Individuals from thirty-two countries, on all seven continents, sent support for the protestors, mostly in the form of take-out pizza deliveries.

Riddle me this:

How come Reid states the Boehner plan is dead on arrival and yet it is the Republicans that won't compromise?

During his speech, Obama urged Americans to contact their Republican representatives and tell them to vote to raise the debt ceiling. So now that the Republican lines are jammed he thanks the American people and urges them to keep it up. Yet, he has no way of knowing whether people are calling to agree with him or are telling their reps to stick to their principles.

Why does he take credit, even when he has no knowledge of the truth and never takes the blame for anything?

"House passes Boehner’s debt ceiling plan"
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/house-passes-boehner-debt-ceiling-plan-223457649.html

"All 53 Senate Democrats signed a letter this week vowing to vote against Boehner's plan."

Now I am really confused. I thought all this time it was the Republicans that are the party of NO. And if the Democrats refuse to pass it in the Senate, then it is STILL the fault of the Republicans for not compromising.

Hmmm..I think I get it now. It is ALWAYS the Republicans, the Tea Party or someone else fault. We can NEVER hold Obama and the Democrats responsible.

"you are not intelligent enough understand the difference between business aka corporate taxes and personal taxes."-fred

Small business income is considered as and taxed as personal income. Corporations are taxed differently. So the $250k personal income tax increase proposed by Obama indeed could affect non-corporate business entities. And since "small" businesses are the darlings of pundits, politicians, and bloggers, it IS a significant point that 97% of "small" businesses do not reach that level, or so I read, and as Obama said.

"Next, the net jobs thing. I'm not even going to go there."

Aw, go ahead. Don't be afraid.

"capitalism, (which by the way is our system-like it or not)."

There's the private sector, with capitalistic procedures, and then there's the public sector, with socialistic procedures. The US is not 100% capitalistic. No country is. Only the ratio of capitalism and socialism varies from country to country.

"Why would anyone in this country give a rats ass what a handful of socialistic foreigners think?"-BF

Aside from the isolationist nativism of that sentiment, it attempts to distract from my point that the whole world is interested in the showdown in Wisconsin.

But going down Distraction Lane with you, let's look at the relative impact this recession has had on different countries. While all EU countries gave up their monetary sovereignty when they signed on to the EU, there were still differences in how these countries ran their affairs. Those countries that adopted Wall Street's irresponsible practices (Ireland, for example) suffered badly, while those that maintained their more conservative collectivist traditions were barely touched. Greece got itself in the clutches of the IMF, which always demands its pound of flesh come from funds that were intended for social uses.

"government makes monetary promises to labor"

The money "promised" to labor was labor's money. If a government says,"Give us $1k in taxes and we'll give you $1m in a few years," that would be challenged at the outset. So I can only conclude that unsustainable social spending is a fictionable trope.

Another broad statement from the brain trust.

"Small business income is considered as and taxed as personal income."-MikeQ

Name your source Q.


SBA definition of a small business:
500 employees or less.
7 million in annual receipts or less.

Dickie, the vast majority of small business's are dba's, llc's, inc's, ect ect ect.

Try this word formation next time:

Personal income, derived from small business income, is taxed as personal income.

Rep. John Conyers, appearing at a meeting of the Out of Poverty caucus, said: "The Republicans -- Speaker Boehner or Majority Leader Cantor -- did not call for Social Security cuts in the budget deal. The President of the United States called for that"

"SBA definition of a small business:
500 employees or less.
7 million in annual receipts or less."-fred

Thanks for the info. Wow, some "small" businesses can be pretty big.

"Name your source Q (of my comment on small business income taxed as personal income)."

I didn't have a source, but just took a quick look online and found:

"(P)artnerships, sole proprietorships, and limited liability companies (LLCs) are not taxed on business profits; instead, the profits "pass through" the businesses to their owners, who report business income or losses on their personal tax returns." Yahoo Small Business

"A sole proprietorship is a business owned and operated by a single person. In this case, the IRS treats all business income as personal income, so everything is taxed at the personal income tax rate." Inc.

"(A) sole proprietorship's income and expenses are included on the personal income tax return of the sole proprietor himself or herself." Findlaw

And so on, through partnerships, etc.

"Corporations are taxed differently than other business structures: A corporation is the only type of business that must pay its own income taxes on profits." Yahoo again

Looks like the weekend of the message board being down broke the momentum of this thread. RNN, next topic, please.

Caspian: "No, I do not blame the tea bags.
Obama did the same with implementing a Republican health care plan "WITHOUT" one Republican voting for it.
No public option and No single payer.
Obama will cut, cut, cut, without one Republican voting for it.
Obama only compromises with himself and then blames the Republicans.

BINGO! YOU WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG ABOUT HIS LACK OF FORTITUDE AND THE CORPORATE CFR CORPORATION COUNCIL DEMS. IT'S SICKENING TO SEE OUR NATION AND OUR PEOPLE BRING PISSED AWAY.

Caspian: "No, I do not blame the tea bags.
Obama did the same with implementing a Republican health care plan "WITHOUT" Republican voting for it.
No public option and No single payer.
Obama will cut, cut, cut, without one Republican voting for it.
Obama only compromises with himself and then blames the Republicans.

BINGO! YOU WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG ABOUT HIS LACK OF FORTITUDE AND THE CORPORATE CFR CORPORATION COUNCIL DEMS. IT'S SICKENING TO SEE OUR NATION AND OUR PEOPLE BEING PISSED AWAY.

GOLDMAN SACHS IS AT IT AGAIN. CHECK OUT THIS SCREW JOB THAT'S COSTING US IT THE COUNTERS. WHEN ARE THE CONGRESSIONAL OVERSIGHT COMMITTEES AND SUPREME COURT GOING TO BEGIN TO DO THEIR JOB FOR "WE THE PEOPLE" WHOM THEY WORK FOR AND PAY FOR THEIR ---> "EXCLUSIVE HEALTHCARE PACKAGES"?
IF CONGRESS WANTS US TO TAKE THEIR CUTS SERIOUSLY LET'S HAVE THEM START THERE.
------
Special report: Goldman's new money machine: warehouses

By Pratima Desai, Clare Baldwin, Susan Thomas and Melanie Burton | Reuters – Thu, Jul 28, 2011

LONDON/DETROIT (Reuters) - In a rundown patch of Detroit, enclosed by a cyclone fence and barbed wire, stands an unremarkable warehouse that investment bank Goldman Sachs has transformed into a money-making machine.

The derelict neighborhood off Michigan Avenue is a sharp contrast to Goldman's bustling skyscraper headquarters near Wall Street, but the two operations share one important element: management by the bank's savvy financial professionals.

A string of warehouses in Detroit, most of them operated by Goldman, has stockpiled more than a million tonnes of the industrial metal aluminum, about a quarter of global reported inventories.

Simply storing all that metal generates tens of millions of dollars in rental revenues for Goldman every year.

There's just one problem: only a trickle of the aluminum is leaving the depots, creating a supply pinch for manufacturers of everything from soft drink cans to aircraft.

The resulting spike in prices has sparked a clash between companies forced to pay more for their aluminum and wait months for it to be delivered, Goldman, which is keen to keep its cash machines humming and the London Metal Exchange (LME), the world's benchmark industrial metals market, which critics accuse of lax oversight.

Analysts question why London's metals market allows big financial players like Goldman to own the warehouses which store huge quantities of metal even as they trade the commodity.

Robin Bhar, a veteran metals analyst at Credit Agricole in London says the conflict of interest is so acute he wants U.S. and European anti-trust regulators to weigh in.

"I think it makes a mockery of the market. It's a shame," Bhar said. "This is an anti-competitive situation. It puts (some) companies at an advantage, and clearly the rest of the market at a disadvantage. It's a real, genuine concern. And I think the regulators have to look at it."

Goldman said its warehouse subsidiary Metro International Trade Services has done nothing illegal, and abides by the LME's warehousing rules. "Producers have chosen to store metal in Detroit with Metro," a Goldman spokeswoman said. "We follow the LME requirements in terms of storing and releasing metals from our warehouses."

The London Metal Exchange defends its rules. "There is a perception that consumers have not been able to get to their metal when the reality is that it is big banks, financing companies and warehouses that are not able to get to their huge tonnages of metal fast enough," said LME business development manager Chris Evans.

BUSINESS MODEL

Goldman's warehouse business relies on a lucrative opportunity enabled by the LME regulations. Those rules allow warehouses to release only a tiny fraction of their inventories per day, much less than the metal that is regularly taken in for storage.

The metal that sits in the warehouse generates lucrative rental income.

Little wonder that so many want in. Metro was acquired by Goldman in February 2010, while commodities trading firm Trafigura nabbed UK-based NEMS in March 2010, and Swiss-based group Glencore International acquired the metals warehousing unit of Italy's Pacorini last September.

Henry Bath, a warehousing firm and founding member of the London Metal Exchange in 1877, has been owned for about 40 years by traders or banks including Metallgesellschaft in the 1980s and failed U.S. energy trader Enron at the turn of the century. It now comes under the umbrella of JP Morgan, which bought the metals trading business of RBS Sempra Commodities in July last year.

Despite its rental income, Goldman's warehouse strategy apparently hasn't been enough to snap a slumping performance in commodity trading, with the company reporting a "significant" drop in revenues from a year ago in its latest quarter, the sixth time in the past 10 quarters that it has failed to expand.

CONSUMERS FUME

The long delays in metal delivery have buyers fuming. Some consumers are waiting up to a year to receive the aluminum they need and that has resulted in the perverse situation of higher prices at a time when the world is awash in the metal.

"It's driving up costs for the consumers in North America and it's not being driven up because there is a true shortage in the market. It's because of an issue of accessing metal ... in Detroit warehouses," said Nick Madden, chief procurement officer for Atlanta-based Novelis, which is owned by India's Hindalco Industries Ltd and is the world's biggest maker of rolled aluminum products. Novelis buys aluminum directly from producers but is still hit by the higher prices.

Madden estimates that the U.S. benchmark physical aluminum price is $20 to $40 a tonne higher because of the backlog at the Detroit warehouses. The physical price is currently around $2,800 per tonne.

That premium is forcing U.S. businesses to fork out millions of dollars more for the 6 million tonnes of aluminum they use annually.

It has also had a knock-on impact on the global market, which is forecast to consume about 45 million tonnes of the lightweight, durable metal this year.

Also pushing aluminum costs higher are bank financing deals, which are estimated to have locked up about 70 percent of the 4.4 million tonnes of the metal sitting in LME-registered warehouses around the world. LME inventories hit an all-time record above 4.7 million tonnes in May.

In a typical deal, a bank buys aluminum from a producer, agrees to sell it at some future point at a profit, and strikes a warehouse deal to store it cheaply for an extended time period.

The combination of the financing deals and the metal trapped in Detroit depots, means only a fraction of the inventories are available to the market.

Premiums for physical aluminum -- the amount paid above the LME's cash contract currently trading at $2,620 a tonne -- in the U.S. Midwest hit a record high of $210 a tonne in May, up about 50 percent from late last year. In Europe, the premium is at records above $200 a tonne, double the levels seen in January 2010.

The ripple effect into Asia has seen the premium paid in Japan increase 6 percent to $120 a tonne in the third quarter from the previous quarter, the first rise in nearly six quarters.

COLLECTING THE RENT

You won't hear banks like Goldman complaining. Rental income continues to pour in at the 19 Detroit area warehouses run by Metro as of June.

From the outside one recent afternoon, a depot in the Detroit suburb of Mt Clemens appeared to be deserted. But neighbors say the place is a whirl of activity in the early hours of the morning when metal is usually delivered for storage.

The LME sets the maximum allowable rent at 41 U.S. cents per day per tonne. At that rate, Goldman's warehouse operation in Detroit -- said to be holding more than 1.1 million tonnes -- could be generating as much as $451,000 per day or about $165 million a year in revenue.

An exact figure cannot be calculated because many clients negotiate lower rental rates and Goldman declined to detail its income from its warehouse business. But when Swiss-based trading company Glencore listed earlier this year it revealed that its metals warehousing unit generated $31 million in profit on $220 million in gross revenue in 2010.

LONG HISTORY

Caught between consumers and warehouse operators is the 134-year old LME, one of the world's last exchanges with open-outcry trading. Sessions take place in a trading ring with red padded seats while visitors can watch from a gallery. Traders juggle multiple telephones and use archaic hand signals to fill orders from consumers, producers and hedge funds.

The ring is a perhaps more civilized version of the tumultuous trading pits made famous in Chicago. Each of six major industrial metals including copper and nickel are traded for five minute bursts in the morning and afternoon. Only 12 firms have access to the ring, arranged in fixed positions in a circle, with many others involved via the ring dealers and on the LME's electronic trading system.

Longer sessions in the late morning and afternoon allow trading of all metals simultaneously and are known as "the kerb" from the days when dealers continued to trade on the kerb, or sidewalk, after leaving the exchange.

The LME certifies and regulates the Detroit sheds as part of a global network of more than 640 warehouses. The network is meant to even out swings in volatile metals markets. During recessions, surplus metal can be stored until economies recover and demand picks up, when the metal can be released.

But that function is now being undermined by the backlog in Detroit.

LME rules stipulate that warehouses must deliver a certain amount of metal each day. However the rules apply not to each warehouse but to each city that a company has warehouses in. At the moment, a warehouse operator needs to deliver just 1,500 tonnes a day per city, whether it owns one warehouse there or dozens.

That means each of Metro's Detroit warehouses need to release only 79 tonnes of aluminum a day. At that rate, it would take two years to clear the stocks held by Goldman's Detroit warehouses.

The backlog sparked outrage last year, prompting the LME to task London-based consultancy Europe Economics to look into its rules. Europe Economics recommended the exchange raise its minimum delivery rates and earlier this month the exchange announced a new regime for operators with stocks of over 900,000 tonnes in one city.

From April 2012 the minimum delivery rate will double to 3,000 tonnes a day.

Critics dismiss the move as too small to have any real effect, especially because of the delay until it comes in.

"The move is too little and too late to have a material effect in the near-term on an already very tight physical market, particularly in the U.S.," Morgan Stanley analysts said in a July note.

A senior executive at a metals brokerage told Reuters "the recommendations won't change anything. The problem will still be there six, nine months down the line."

"If Detroit has 1.1 million tonnes at the moment, what's to say it won't have 2 million tonnes next year," he said.

MOVING MORE METAL

One obvious solution would be to impose minimum delivery requirements per warehouse or per square meter of warehouse space rather than per city.

It's not as if the warehouses can't cope with delivering more stock: large operations can shift much more than 3,000 tonnes a day, warehousing sources say. An experienced forklift driver takes about 20 minutes to load one 20-tonne truck with aluminum in the United States. That means one warehouse in Detroit with two doors, two forklifts and an eight-hour working day could move out as much as 1,920 tonnes of metal every day.

"If you take Detroit in particular, those warehouses historically extracted metal at a faster rate ... the infrastructure is there," a senior analyst in the metals industry told Reuters.

Madden at Novelis said: "I don't know the specific details of every warehouse but our view is that they seem to be able to absorb metal coming in at almost an infinite rate and so we feel there's a lot more they can do on the output side to push up the (load out) rates."

The LME could also crack down in the same way it did in 1998 when it banned Metro from taking any more copper into its Long Beach and Los Angeles warehouses. Then the complaints were said to have come from copper consumers worried that 80 percent of total copper stocks in LME-approved warehouses were held in California.

The exchange argues that any change right now might disrupt the market.

"Changes to the delivery out rate have required careful consideration because it will impact the cost structure for those holding metal, and were those costs to rise sharply it could affect the way that metal is stored and traded," said the LME's Evans.

The exchange could also rule that a warehouse cannot charge rent once aluminum has been purchased, no matter how long it takes to ship it. But a change like that would hit the LME itself as it receives about 1 percent of the rental income earned by the warehouses it approves.

LEGAL FEARS

Nobody at the LME will say whether the Europe Economics study -- industry sources said it talked to more than 40 companies -- advised more radical measures, arguing that such information is "proprietary".

In any case, say metal markets sources, LME officials may be hesitant to make bigger changes because they fear legal action from the likes of Goldman, which could argue that Metro's business model has been based on existing LME warehouse rules.

The LME declined to comment on possible legal challenges, but its Chief Executive Martin Abbott said at a recent briefing that the warehouse delays were not causing market and price distortions.

"No, I don't believe it is," Abbott said, when asked if the situation was causing distortions in the market.

Abbott said the exchange had received no official complaints from consumers about bottlenecks at warehouses. The LME also dismisses concerns about banks trading metal and owning the warehouses where it is stored.

While a British parliamentary committee raised the issue in May, Britain's Office of Fair Trading declined to open a probe.

The U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission, which regulates the futures and options markets, said it would not comment.

Britain's Financial Services Authority, which regulates exchanges where commodity futures are traded but not warehouses that store physical material, declined to comment.

WHAT NEXT?

The lack of real change has some in the industry questioning the very structure of the LME, which, unlike its publicly owned U.S.-based rival commodities exchanges, is owned by many of the financial institutions that trade there.

"The belief is that they are focused on serving their shareholders; most of them being the banks ... We see our clients and contacts trying to avoid the LME as much as possible now," said Jorge Vazquez, Managing Director of the Aluminum Intelligence Unit at HARBOR Commodity Research.

That concern is growing. Critics of the exchange point to a potential problem with zinc supply though New Orleans, where inventories now account for 61 percent of total LME-registered stocks.

Most of the warehouses in New Orleans are owned by Goldman and Glencore.

Metal industry sources believe regulators should take a closer look at the possible conflict of interest that arises when trading houses also own the warehouses.

"If the whole thrust of regulation and regulatory reform is increased transparency and open and above board operations, letting banks own warehouses seems to run entirely counter to that," said Frances Hudson, global thematic strategist at Standard Life Investments said.

The LME says it enforces a strong separation between warehouses and the trading arms of their owners. Just this week it proposed that companies which own warehouses should engage an independent third-party to verify the robustness of Chinese walls.

"We enforce it through regular audits of warehouses," said the LME's Evans. "If people say Chinese walls are leaking then they should bring us evidence and we'll investigate."

(Pratima Desai, Susan Thomas and Melanie Burton reported from London; Clare Baldwin reported from Detroit; with additional reporting by Chris Kelly in New York and Karen Norton in London; Graphics by Vincent Flasseur; Editing by Eric Onstad, Richard Mably and Simon Robinson)

BINGO! YOU WERE RIGHT ALL ALONG ABOUT HIS LACK OF FORTITUDE AND THE CORPORATE CFR CORPORATION COUNCIL DEMS. IT'S SICKENING TO SEE OUR NATION AND OUR PEOPLE BEING PISSED AWAY.

=================

Thank you John, and you know better than anyone that most in Congress are prostitutes for Wall Street.

Very sad, but very true!

Stay well friend.

P.S. Great article which goes to show these big corporations / Donald Trumps of this world, use the loopholes in the laws to get away with financial murder.

.. The tea party is a WONDERFULL movement, its made up of roughly 25% of people who ID themselves as liberal, its far from the right wing the media likes to portray!


.. They are challenging the "DC INSIDERS" to change there reckless spending habits, whats so bad about that?


.. Its a WONDERFULL thing to see and i like how they changed the debate in DC a lil bit, bravo Tea Party, BRAVO!!!

Bravo to you Damon for speaking the truth!

Some here will tell you that the Tea Party is run by the Corporates and the rich and therefore are no good. That is like saying the American people are no good because our leaders are corrupt. Those in Washington that refer to Tea Party supporters as the "Dark side", "Satan burgers", "Terrorists","Racists" and so on, do so because it threatens their own evil and corrupt plans of spending this country into the ground and destroying Americas future.

When Washington, including McCain, attack the Tea Party, they are not attacking the elite but are attacking their very own Citizens. For this injustice, they will pay a hefty price come election time.

Richard, Mike, Fred, Robert, Caspian, John, Peter, and anybody else on this message board:

Let's get together at the studio, have lunch in New York sometime.

Don't think that the tea party knew that they were voting for the cuts when they wanted a balanced budget.



PIERPONT MORGAN BAILED OUT THE AMERICAN GOVERNMENT A LONG TIME AGO. BUT, THIS WAS AT A TIME WHEN PEOPLE CARED ABOUT COUNTRY, PEOPLE AND ALL THAT CRAP.


LAST WEEK GOOGLE BRAGS IT HAS MORE RESERVE THAN THE UNITED STATES.


bill Gates, apple, and google and a few other billionaires could easily bail out the United States.

Next, Apple is talking about eliminating a few more jobs and using ROBOTS--10,0000 OR MORE ROBOTS TO MANUFACTURE THEIR PRODUCTS. THESE COMPANIES WANT IT ALL--

TELL THEM TO SEND THEIR KIDS TO FIGHT IN THE WARS BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT SENDING YOURS.

Government Actor Behind Cyber Attacks!

BOSTON (Reuters) - Security experts have discovered an unprecedented series of cyber attacks on the networks of 72 organizations globally, including the United Nations, governments and corporations, over a five-year period.

Security company McAfee, which uncovered the intrusions, said it believed there was one "state actor" behind the attacks but declined to name it, though several other security experts said the evidence points to China.

The long list of victims in the extended campaign include the governments of the United States, Taiwan, India, South Korea, Vietnam and Canada; the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN); the International Olympic Committee (IOC); the World Anti-Doping Agency; and an array of companies, from defense contractors to high-tech enterprises.

In the case of the United Nations, the hackers broke into the computer system of its secretariat in Geneva in 2008, hid there for nearly two years, and quietly combed through reams of secret data, according to McAfee.

"Even we were surprised by the enormous diversity of the victim organizations and were taken aback by the audacity of the perpetrators," McAfee's vice president of threat research, Dmitri Alperovitch, wrote in a 14-page report released on Wednesday.

"What is happening to all this data ... is still largely an open question. However, if even a fraction of it is used to build better competing products or beat a competitor at a key negotiation (due to having stolen the other team's playbook), the loss represents a massive economic threat."

McAfee learned of the extent of the hacking campaign in March this year, when its researchers discovered logs of the attacks while reviewing the contents of a "command and control" server that they had discovered in 2009 as part of an investigation into security breaches at defense companies.

It dubbed the attacks "Operation Shady RAT" and said the earliest breaches date back to mid-2006, though there might have been other intrusions. (RAT stands for "remote access tool," a type of software that hackers and security experts use to access computer networks from afar).

Some of the attacks lasted just a month, but the longest -- on the Olympic Committee of an unidentified Asian nation -- went on and off for 28 months, according to McAfee.

"Companies and government agencies are getting raped and pillaged every day. They are losing economic advantage and national secrets to unscrupulous competitors," Alperovitch told Reuters.

"This is the biggest transfer of wealth in terms of intellectual property in history," he said. "The scale at which this is occurring is really, really frightening."

CHINA CONNECTION?

Alperovitch said that McAfee had notified all 72 victims of the attacks, which are under investigation by law enforcement agencies around the world. He declined to give more details.

Jim Lewis, a cyber expert with the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said it was very likely China was behind the campaign because some of the targets had information that would be of particular interest to Beijing.

The systems of the IOC and several national Olympic Committees were breached before the 2008 Beijing Games. And China views Taiwan as a renegade province, and political issues between them remain contentious even as economic ties have strengthened in recent years.

***** ---->"Everything points to China. ---->It could be the Russians, but there is more that points to China than Russia," Lewis said.

McAfee, acquired by Intel Corp this year, would not comment on whether China was responsible.

There was no comment from China on the report.

The U.N. said it was aware of the report, and had started an investigation to ascertain if there was an intrusion.

A U.S. Defense Department spokeswoman, Air Force Lieutenant Colonel April Cunningham, said "it is unknown who is perpetrating these intrusions."

"With regard to China, we reported to Congress in 2010 that China is actively pursuing cyber capabilities with a focus on the exfiltration of information, some of which could be of strategic or military utility," Cunningham said.

White House spokesman Jay Carney declined to comment on the report's findings but said U.S. President Barack Obama viewed cybersecurity as a top priority and was working to tighten the defenses of both the government and private sector.

U.S. Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said, "We obviously will evaluate it, look at it and pursue what needs to be pursued in terms of its content."

Britain's electronic spy agency told Reuters the McAfee report highlighted the need for international cooperation as cyber security challenges were transnational.

"Attribution for attacks in cyberspace is always difficult. But whoever is responsible, this report is another reminder of the need for effective cyber-security," said a spokeswoman for the Government Communications Headquarters, one of the three main arms of British intelligence.

STONE AGE

Vijay Mukhi, a cyber-expert based in India, said some South Asian governments were highly vulnerable to hacking from China.

"I'm not surprised because that's what China does, they are gradually dominating the cyberworld," he said. "I would call it child's play (for a hacker to get access to Indian government data) ... I would say we're in the stone age."

In Taiwan, an official of the Criminal Investigation Bureau, which has a cyber crime unit, said he had no knowledge of the McAfee report but added there had been no cases in recent years of hacking of government websites.

An official from the Japanese trade ministry's information security policy team said it was difficult to determine whether a specific government lay behind a cyber attack "although we see which countries the attacks originate from."

McAfee released the report to coincide with the start of the Black Hat conference in Las Vegas, an annual meeting of security professionals who promote security and fight cyber crime.

(Additional reporting from Tom Miles in Geneva, Jack Kim in Seoul, James Pomfret in New Delhi, William Maclean in London, Laura MacInnis and Jeremy Pelofsky in Washington; editing by Tiffany Wu, Martin Howell, Ron Popeski, Ed Lane, Eric Walsh, Bill Trott and Matthew Lewis)
_________________________________________________________________________________

NOBODY SHOULD BE OVERLOOKING THE POSSIBILITY OF "INSIDER" COLLUSIONS BY ANY OF THE FOLLOWING PLAYERS... WHOSE ACTIONS HAVE SHOWN AND EXHIBITED UNMITIGATED PRACTICES THAT HAVE BOTH UNDERMINED US SECURITY AND PROVIDED APPARATI TO UNDERMINE FREEDOMS DURING THE PAST DECADE.
--------------------
-------------------------
See if you can name any of them yourselves???

-One attempted to sell Unocal and it's assets.
-Another has provided China with the tools to locate and remove its dissidents.
-Another has been identified fully protecting known "identity" thieves in Russia.
-Several government agencys responcible for unfavorable trade imbalances.

****Several top of the rung CEO's and their corporations who have openly declared to their investors that China and not the US holds the key to their future market investment. "Americans not smart enough, overpaid, and not as hard working or industrious as our "growing" market competitors. American work standards shrink the bottom line."

Is G-S under its myriad of defined and undefined protections hedging AGAINST US again?

FOLLOW THE MONEY!!! ... THE CONTRACTS, THE DEALS, AND THE TREATIES INTENDED TO CIRCUMVENT OR ARE DIRECT VIOLATIONS TO US LAW.

NO STONES SHOULD BE OFF LIMITS IN THIS INVESTIGATION!!!

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